It's hard to be a farmer in South
Africa.
>> It's hard to just be white in South
>> Does that mean you think the term white
genocide is appropriate?
>> It's like a slow war, a slow genocide
that's that's keeping on.
>> The white minority in South Africa feels
under attack.
>> I don't say our part was was maybe the
right thing, but there wasn't as much
murder. There wasn't as much crime. In a
nation scarred by a racist past, this
sounds like the old regime spreading
lies.
>> I want to put
clear that we're not killing white
people.
>> We were hoping that we'll get what the
the white people took from us.
>> It's like they playing games with us.
>> This is the myth of a white genocide and
the failure of post-aparttheid South
>> It's pretty amazing landscape, isn't it?
>> Yeah, it is
>> beautiful. It's very beautiful. And
you've always lived here.
>> Yes. Most all of us we were staying in
these mountains. Yeah.
>> Then we were
we were chased by wise to settle down
there. Yeah.
>> On a hillside in Limpopo Province in
South Africa's far north. A tranquil
setting that hides so much history and
pain. What were the stories you were
told about being pushed off the land?
>> It was not negotiable.
You were told they were actually
instructed and those who resisted they
perished there.
>> So you were supposed to comply.
>> It is the legacy of a
during apartheid. Mahali's family was
forced from their land in these lush
hills and moved down below. When that
system fell 30 years ago, the community
was promised they would one day return
>> because it's a sense of ownership
because if you don't have the land, you
have nothing. It's like you are an empty
man.
>> The land and who owns it and the past
and how you resolve it is the story of
modern South Africa and it is one that
now interests the White House.
>> Death. Death.
Death.
>> Donald Trump's administration claims
that white people are now being forced
from their land and often murdered.
>> But you do allow them to take land.
>> No. No. No.
>> You do allow them to take land.
>> Nobody can.
>> And then when they take the land, they
kill the white farmer. And when they
kill the white farmer, nothing happens
to them.
>> No. It led to a dressing down of
President Siril Ramiposa and has seen
America now offer white South Africans
asylum so as to avoid a so-called white
genocide.
Many white farmers believe they still
have a right to the land and are its
best custodians.
>> And so how long have you had the farm
for then?
>> Uh we had the farm now for 34 years.
>> Yeah. Further north in Limpopo, right on
the border with Botswana, Marie and her
family own 12,200 hectares of land.
>> Their farm includes potato fields as
well as game.
>> Oh, he's on his way to the water.
>> They are still scarred by a past crime.
They were attacked in their farm in 2002
by armed gunmen. The family, including
her son Gideon, survived with Marie
having shot and killed one of the
robbers.
>> To lose one farmer, it's sad.
>> To lose a thousand farmers that's been
killed.
>> I think it's a genocide. You know, these
farmer attackers, if they come in, they
don't just kill the farmer,
>> they torture them,
>> they rape the women and the children.
Looking at the statistics which you talk
about, crime is everywhere in South
Africa. It's it's rampant, isn't it?
White farmers are dying, but black
people are dying as well, aren't they?
>> Black people are dying as well in their
thousands. And and like the farmer tax
is not only on white farmers.
>> So, it's not a white genocide, but a
crime problem.
>> It's a crime problem in South Africa,
but the thing with the farmers is um
there's literally thousands of farmers
that's been killed. Do you think that is
a long-term consequence of apartheid or
do you think now we're in an age where
the government the ANC hasn't done
enough? Apartate is a it's it's an
excuse
because my reason for that is I don't
say apartate was was maybe the right
thing but there wasn't as much murder
there wasn't as much crime there wasn't
as much poverty South Africa was on a
better foot economically for everyone it
was better
>> statistics show the murder rate was
higher under apartheid and that there is
no white genocide with the South African
court dismissing claims names of one as
unreal and imagined. Would you take up
Trump's offer to move to America or
would do you want to stay here?
>> No, I won't leave. I really don't want
to go live in any other country than in
South Africa.
>> Um although it's difficult, it's not
it's hard to be a farmer in South
Africa. Uh and not only a farmer, it's
hard to just be white in South Africa
because if you are white,
>> but black communities also live in fear.
There are 64 murders a day in South
Africa and most happen in the townships.
The informal black settlements formed
during apartheid.
>> You're not sleeping well. Some they come
and break your your windows or your
doors enter you doing many things.
>> Mahali who we met earlier on the hilltop
is sitting down with his neighborhood
watch patrol group. When you see South
Africa in the news internationally and
it's Donald Trump saying there's a white
genocide,
white farmers are most at risk. How does
that make you feel?
>> It's not correct. I want to say it. I
want to put categorically clear that
we're not killing white people. Instead,
we are fighting for what is given to us.
In the nutshell, I would say Trump is is
racist because he was supposed to have
come down. Came to South Africa to find
out himself to say what is happening
here. He's listening to a very very very
small group.
>> For this community, the end of apartheid
was meant to bring less crime and more
land.
>> One jobs
will be having this h
crime rate. Yeah. we wouldn't be having
this corruption if these people really
they were interested in solving the
problems of us the masses of this
country. So even though you don't agree
with Donald Trump and what he says about
white genocide and white farmers, you
would agree with him maybe that the ANC
has let you down.
>> Definitely we agree with him on on that
one. And we also agree with him on the
issue of crime. Do not racialize it.
Crime is a crime.
>> Yes. If a white person died, the white
person died.
It's a it's a crime. It's a human being.
If a black person died, a black person
died. But if five or 10 black people
died, then white white die and you make
noise, then it's a problem.
>> This is that noise
but with silent crosses. Each one marks
the killing of a white farmer since
1994.
>> Most of the farm murders against the
white people is racial.
>> Corbus Dang is the caretaker of the
Vikrris monument. It's like a slow war,
a slow genocide that's that's keeping
on.
>> Farm murders represent just 0.2% of all
homicides. And statistics show that the
majority of farm attacks are motivated
by robbery, not a systematic attempt to
remove white people from the land.
>> Do you miss the apartide area?
>> No, I don't miss apart. I don't miss
that. I miss the the the
unity that was there. But land was taken
from black people during apartheid.
>> No, I don't think so.
>> It was
>> not that I I know of.
>> So you don't think any black people were
moved from?
>> They were not move forcibly. For sure
not.
>> There are only about 4% of black farmers
on private land. That's tiny. That's not
right, is it?
>> Uh yeah, I think that's about about
right.
>> How can that be when they are 80% of the
population?
>> Because they they don't know how to
farm.
>> Do you think that black people are
inferior when it comes to working the
land?
No, not from working in the land, but
from from leadership. Yeah.
>> So, you were dispossessed of your farm.
>> Mhm.
>> By the state
>> in 1958.
>> Yes.
>> This is the document you have to try and
get the land back.
>> Yes. The empty promises since in 1995
really the promised it's empty.
>> What would it mean to get the land back?
>> It means a lot because that's our
father's land.
69year-old Jartha has been trying to
reclaim her family's land for the past
27 years, as has her friend William, now
73, forced from their farms decades ago
and moved here a few chickens in the
yard next to the outdoor toilet. When we
talk to
uh white farmers,
>> they always have told us
the black community they don't know how
to farm and they shouldn't have the
>> Really?
>> How?
>> They say they say you black people
haven't got the
the technical abilities that they have
to look after the farm. What do you say
to that?
>> I know that's not true.
>> That's not true. There are some people
here,
particularly the white people who are
they don't agree
that a a black person can live the the
better life like them.
>> That is where the problem comes from
them
because
normally they think they are the ones
who can do farming.
>> They can do everything.
William was just 6 years old when his
family was evicted during apartheid.
>> They claim money.
>> You see, they just call our parents
>> in the afternoon like today. So they
said tomorrow before sunset.
We don't want to see you any longer
here. You must leave.
>> Are you tired after all these years?
>> You're very tired. You're very very and
when it's at 27 years sometimes you get
very angry
for 27 years it's like they playing
games with us
>> at the same time.
>> At a national meeting of the ANC's
leadership just outside Johannesburg.
President Ramiposa knows his party is
under attack both at home and abroad.
Despite the pressure and resistance from
the global and domestic right to
enforcers,
we have not retreated from the
progressive domestic and foreign policy
positions of our movement.
[Applause]
>> I'm from Channel 4 News in the UK. Are
you free for a minute just to talk to
me? No quickly. You sure?
>> Ramaposa had been speaking just as Trump
hit South Africa with a 30% tariff rate.
Now,
>> is it possible to just ask a quick
question
>> about what?
>> Do you admit that there has been a
failure from the ANC over the last 30
years and and part of that failure
allows Donald Trump to criticize you and
slap on tariffs?
>> No.
>> No,
>> no, no. Donald Trump is slapping tariffs
on everyone.
>> But he's come on he's come against you
very strongly.
>> Hold on. is targeting a number of
countries and sometimes for specific
internal issues which are our preserve.
>> Yeah.
>> Like what happens in the United States
is the preserve of the United States
people. So we deal with our challenges
as he deals with his
>> I'm sorry. Sorry, sir. No, sorry. You're
not supposed to be having it. A
president in a hurry in a nation where
far too many feel change is painfully
slow.